Re: Imperialism

[President WIN]

(Will you leave France alone until I have some serious time to post please? I'm with family for the holidays.)

Also, the ISE responds to Ireland, that at the rate Oil is now being extracted at, and with recycling to cover for the loss in production, oil is now a renewable resource.

Also, check your science, combining hydrogen and oxygen within a fuel cell won't release any gas, period, and while dyhydorgen monoxide (H2O) would certainly be the product, it isn't a green house gas, it wouldn't escape the fuel cell (in large quantities) and without carbon in the reactants, there would be no CO2 in the products. Period.

[Doomwing]

(Okay Trey. I took a year of Envioronmental Science. What we learned was all about global climate change. And I am here to tell you Water is the Worst Green house gas. And You may be right about the CO2. But water traps and holds infrared light energy. Ex. Notice how Water takes such a long time to cool. But can heat up Quickly? That is the green house gas effect of Water. Water is the biggest green house gas. Not to mention You cannot Recycle oil it is a product from which thousands of years of pressure created. Also did you know Bacteria Feed off of it? Just because you change your power sources to something more green. Doesn't stop the degredation of the Earth. And if it isn't allowed to escape the fuel cell... How come it doesn't explode. Pressure would cause it to explode not to mention you would have a lot of water just condensing in the chamber. You have to remove the water from the reaction otherwise the reaction would cease. And it would be easier to just let the gas escape from it. Which is what any Scientist would do. You may not, but guess what you are in control of a country. And For Christ's Sake People! This last part is for all of you. Stop doing what You as a person would do and do what your Country would do. You have Billions of people besides yourself. They all need food. And food is not as renewable as you Think. Sure we have Plenty of it now. But once the population reaches 18 billion. Food would be so scarce that We would see a dramatic Drop in the population. However here is the kicker, more population means more cities. And cities tend to be build on Fertile ground for farming. Did you know that? So you have less area of food production and an increased population using more food. It would cause food to become one of them most valubal resources on the planet.

Finnally. I would like to say this. Our planet changes, and we should actually have natural disasters for once. Jeff you have to have natural disasters. Otherwise the world is a fairy tale world with no ailments. But we are not a fairy tale world. We are Roleplaying the Earth, and her people. So if we are going to start really roleplaying on this. Start acting like your countries and stop Out of character Fighting.)

Ireland Points out that the average High schooler in america knows more about green house gasses than the ISE.

[President WIN]

(I love how you rant against out of character fighting, and then use your country to attack me. Very smooth. And very, very hypocritical.

Water is not a greenhouse gas because it is a liquid (duh) and it in fact helps to regulate temperature on earth, and water vapor, while having green house gas qualities is very present in our atmosphere right and now, and is not important, because hydrogen fuel cells again, do not release the water, as it can be recharged, if you will, to H and O.

Also, while the heat produced by the reaction does produce pressure, that is a result of heat, and could be solved either by making mechanical use of the pressure to do work, or simply by cooling the fuel cell as current engines are cooled. Again, duh. Also, your discussion of water is either incomplete, or just plain wrong.

Most petroleum products are fully recyclable, just take rubber for an example. It can be melted down and reformed to be whatever shape you want. So less new oil need be extraced for that, and since it isn't a primary fuel source, no new oil need be extracted for that. Oil is renewable in that pressure is creating it, faster than humans use it now.

I'll refrain from destroying your credibility further, as at this point you can still claim to be more informed than most, although you're dead wrong here.

You're right that more natural disaters would be more realistic, and I like that idea, because it will force countries to face the challenges of nature and the population growth you mentioned, but I firmly believe the world can overcome these challenges, through many and various means many of which you seem to ignore, but oh well.

Ultimately, your little ecological rage post here would be much more effective if you were more accurate, and less stuck up. But then again, you wouldn't have to rely on put downs if your science was as accurate as you say it is, now would you? It truly disgusts me to see smart people who genuinely care about the environment like you resorting to bogus science and ridiculous attacks to try and make your case. I obviously like you personally, but please, if you're going to take science classes, try to think analytically in them.)

The ISE ignores the Irish, happy to let them degrade themselves by hurling insults.

[Tassadar]

[i agree about the natural disasters, but I think they should at least border reality. For instance, take natural disasters that happen IRL and apply them to the RP.]

[Doomwing]

(I will say this. You fail to realize how little our resources are in general. Most of the earth's water is salt water, Unusable. very little is fresh water. And most of the fresh water is trapped in the polar ice caps.

And my God. Trey Water vapor is the Worst Green House gas! it may be a Liquid. But it still Retains Heat better than most other Substances. I am Also talking on a Global Scale. Now Don't make me go get all my old research I did for this. I will.

And Sure most petroleum products are recyclable. But you used rubber. Did you know Rubber is made from a tree? Not Oil. Why don't you do some research for once trey. You don't know everything. I am Pointing out Logical Facts. The Earth's population is Growing Rapidly. Cities are expanding into Fertile ground to be used for food. This creates a Cycle of Degredation. No matter how regulated you get. The Basic Human notion of Survival always wins through.

Not to mention... how do you get the water out of the cell in the first place? You would have to use energy created by the reaction to split the H2O back into the products... Not to mention you would need Twice as much Hydrogen than oxygen to make the reaction work in the first place.

And so you have a Few little hydrogen cars... Big woop. They mean jack shit in the grand scheme of things. You would have to have at least some alternate way to get rid of waste.

Now let me get this down for you. The Earth takes in Ultraviolet light from the sun. The plants use it for their various reactions. Plants and animals radiate Infrared light. This is heat energy. The light is reflected back down to earth by water vapor and other green house gasses. keeping in the heat energy. Now When you keep Pumping water vapor into the atmosphere, you get more heat being trapped in the atmosphere. When this happens, it causes more water to evaporate also getting trapped into the atmosphere retaining even more heat! Nature Deals with this with Storms. Increased water, Means Deadlier Storms. As this continues the temperature rises slowly, Storms get more violent, and the Ice caps begin to melt causing water levels around the world to rise. This is what is known as Global Climate Change.

The Earth also Has a limited amount of fertile soil. Most of the Land on earth is practically unusable. So you get increased strain on these very little food sources. These food Sources get destroyed by the Growth of cities, Disasters caused by the Storms, and Flooding caused by Rising water levels.

Something as simple as a little water going into the air in increased amounts can have a drastic effect on the world. So maybe your country is perfect, a Utopia. But guess what. The world around you is dying just like ours in the real world. You keep going on saying my science is Flawed. But guess what, I don't care. My Science is based on years of research.

A Fantastical idea such as a perfect self contained reaction with replenishing energy is Impossible and based on Troll physics. So Stop using Troll physics and do some of your own research trey)

[President WIN]

(I have only a few things to say. I'll keep this brief, as this whole thing should have gone on the OOC thread anyway.

I don't fail to realize how bleak the human situation is, but you fail to recognize the power of the human spirit, especially when guided by a visionary leader. The earth's water can be de-salinated, and probably will be in a rapidly approaching future where we need that water more than ever. This and other problems will all be solved, and we'll be the ones to do it, if you can stop slandering people long enough to do it.

H2O in liquid form is not a greenhouse gas! Listen to yourself! Moreover, water from hydrogen cells, if they are properly built, does not escape so it doesn't even matter. Frankly I believe you that water vapor is a major contributor to the greenhouse effect, but even that is in dispute in some minds.

If you have any evidence, please, bring it out, I'd love to see it. So far, your science IS bogus, because you have no evidence.

DID YOU KNOW SYNTHETIC RUBBER, WHICH IS USED MUCH MORE WIDELY THAN NATURAL RUBBER, COME FROM PETROLEUM? No, you didn't, because you didn't take the time to do anything more than coem up with more bullshit to try and back up science you either don't understand, or already know is wrong.

And to your comments about the fuel cells, yes you would need twice as much hydrogen as oxygen. Congatulations, you know what H2O means. But you are incorrect that you would use the energy of the reaction to undo the reaction, because that be thermo-dynamically undesirable. I imagine you would use a renewable, such as solar to recharge hydrogen fuel cells, but I'm not an expert, AND THE HYDROGEN CARS AREN'T EVEN MY IDEA. If you want to know how they've been built to work in-game, ask Alex. I can only tell you how I would do it without puppeteering. I told Alex that they were impractical, but they are a nice idea.

I have alternate ways of getting rid of waste, too, jackshit and all, but that's a different story, and as of right now, I have exactly 0 hydrogen cars, because they are Alex's idea.

Also, thank you for your useless description of climate change. You failed to include major parts of it, and bored me to death telling me NOTHING I don't already know.

And, obviously, we have increased yields before, we can do it again. Don't try to tell someone who's grandmother owns farms about food production. I recognize all the inherent challenges in it, and I know it's problematic, but humaity will prevail, possibly through increased yields, or possibly through natural selection. We'll deal.

Also, how many times do I have to tell you, there is no little increased water going into the air? Why can't you get over that?

So guess what, nobody ever said anything was a utopia, but with strong leadership we can make things better than they were when we started out. And the world is being pushed, but it will survive, and humanity will survive, if we can learn to work together, in the game, just like ours in the real world.

And some of your science is flawed. It doesn't matter that you seem to think someone supports you, and it doesn't matter that you are right on a number of other things. All that matters is that the things I'm calling you on, you are wrong (or at least poorly communicating, or maybe misinformed).

You also can claim you're supported by years of research all day. Put up or shut up. You can claim to be based on thousands of years of research, but you aren't. The most infamous of intellectuals are those who make statements based on imaginary research. I can provide sources for my claims. Can you?

Finally, you insult me again, incorrectly, as I never made any such claim. I use only the universal laws, and common sense. I have my research, although I can and do need to do more. All you do however is spout half-truths, insults, and some good science to make yourself look credible, and then make wild accusations.

In case you couldn't understand that last sentence, I'll bring it to your level: I never made any fantastical claims. I don't use Troll physics (whatever that is). And I have research.

[Tassadar]

[dont know about you guys, but I'm having a blast watching Ian and Trey bomb the shit out of the thread. Just felt like saying that]

[Doomwing]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas
http://climate.nasa.gov/
http://climate.nasa.gov/causes/
*From this Source above*
"Water vapor. The most abundant greenhouse gas, but importantly, it acts as a feedback to the climate. Water vapor increases as the Earth's atmosphere warms, but so does the possibility of clouds and precipitation, making these some of the most important feedback mechanisms to the greenhouse effect."

How about a List of all the ones minus water vapor shall we?

Carbon dioxide (CO2). A minor but very important component of the atmosphere, carbon dioxide is released through natural processes such as respiration and volcano eruptions and through human activities such as deforestation, land use changes, and burning fossil fuels. Humans have increased atmospheric CO2 concentration by a third since the Industrial Revolution began. This is the most important long-lived "forcing" of climate change.

Methane. A hydrocarbon gas produced both through natural sources and human activities, including the decomposition of wastes in landfills, agriculture, and especially rice cultivation, as well as ruminant digestion and manure management associated with domestic livestock. On a molecule-for-molecule basis, methane is a far more active greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, but also one which is much less abundant in the atmosphere.
Nitrous oxide. A powerful greenhouse gas produced by soil cultivation practices, especially the use of commercial and organic fertilizers, fossil fuel combustion, nitric acid production, and biomass burning.

Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs). Synthetic compounds of entirely of industrial origin used in a number of applications, but now largely regulated in production and release to the atmosphere by international agreement for their ability to contribute to destruction of the ozone layer. They are also greenhouse gases .

http://climate.nasa.gov/effects/

http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

I also would like to point out... anything involving the combustion of any form of hydrocarbon produces the top two greenhouse gases. Not to mention as the ice recedes off of the Soviet Union's Siberian ice. it would release metric tons of methane gas into the atmosphere.

http://www.neaq.org/conservation_and_research/climate_change/effects_on_ocean_animals.php

My Final world on this...

Water is a good coolant yes. But it also is a horrid thing to try to cool down in vast quantities. The Earth being mostly covered in water, Relies on these currents of water to keep the ocean cool. However did you know Fresh water and Salt water behave differently?

When the Polar ice caps melt. The fresh water goes into the ocean. The fresh water disrupts the oceanic tides… making it harder for the ocean to cool down. So temperatures rise, When they do it allows for more water to enter the atmosphere because literally the atmosphere of the earth would be expanding. Thus Causing a Warming pattern which has become evident at this time. You can Wave your arms saying We stopped this we are not doing this at this time! But the damage is already done. Sure you stopped drilling for oil… recycling rubbers, and other oil based products. But the thing about Oil recycling is... you do lose some of the oil as a result. you Cannot Recycle Everything Trey. Not to mention those plants would have some form of waste from heating the oils and other such. )

Ireland continues to watch the Earth Degrade before their eyes. They move the ships further into the asteroid belt. And continue work on several new projects.

[Tassadar]

The US sends this to the Irish; do you have a solution? If not, then thank you for your concern, but I think we can get this solved. Have a wonderful day.

[President WIN]

The ISE agrees with the U.S., and when the U.S.'s statement comes out, the Brazilian Senate, along with the Africa Union's Legislature and the Arab Parliament all give it a standing ovation. The ISE is sad that Ireland can be so advanced in space tech, and so woefully behind in climatology. But it makes sense.

(Thank you so much for, again, telling us what we already knew, this time in regards to greenhouse gasses. Nothing you say is new, and you do indeed seem to believe our destruction is inevitable. All I have to say is that we can overcome all these challenges, and the new ones that will arise, and if we can IRL, then we certainly can IRP.

Oil drilling is not 100% percent ended. It is simply on a timetable such that it is restored by geological mechanisms at about the same rate as it is mined from the earth.

P.S. Your evidence applies to what we already agreed was correct, or else something you've just brought up now. I'd like to see evidence for why hydrogen cars (even though they aren't my idea) would have to release water, or evidence for why we can't possibly avert environmental disaster. You know why I'd like to see it? Because it doesn't exist.

At least I got you to stop swearing at me, I'll take that as a victory for reasonable discussion. I suggest you come to terms with the fact that I am a passionate and imformed environmentalist as well. I suggest we stop arguing about the fate of the world in a roleplay, and pool our knowledge to make some change in the real world.)

[Flagmauth]

[Quite frankly that whole debate was irrelevant - I had planned on not letting climate change and "we're-destroying-the-planet" stuff even get involved in the RP, as it would get in the way of us killing each other, but it was fun to read.]

[Doomwing]

(I will end with this. The Self contained reaction of Hydrogen and oxygen makes energy yes? But it produces water. You have to separate oxygen from the water to get the two ingredients back. That requires energy. So with a self contained reaction like that. You would end up using the energy produced to separate the original substances. Thus you get an Impossible reaction. you would have to expel water to get it to work. The whole self contained reaction like that is a flawed design. Not to mention you would have water build up in the tank which would cause an increase in pressure. That is the main flaw with this Self-contained hydrogen reaction. It just cannot possibly work. It is like this ex:

You have a Fan blowing into a wind turbine producing energy. Infinite Energy trolololol. Unfortunately the energy is just going back into the fan to keep it running. Sure energy is being produced it just goes back to the source and is being used up as fast as it is being produced so you technically have Zero Energy.

It just Doesn't work. Period. it is flawed Physics.)

Ireland is having a food shortage currently. They turn several mined out asteroids into farming units. The Irish Scientists have come up with a pill to replicate earth environments in the body to trick it into thinking it is on earth. Tests begin on the few animals they brought with with resounding success.

Human testing begins in Three days time.

[President WIN]

(I will end with this. The energy produced by the Hydrogen-Water reaction would be channeled to produce motive force rather than splitting the water. The replacement H and O would be made by using solar or other direct energy sources to split water. The water falls into a seperate chamber where it can be removed later, and split via the above method.

The fact that the water would fall into a seperate tank (hence, it is not a self-contained reaction) prevents build up of pressure, loss of energy and release of water vapor into the air. Again I don't know the exact physics, but it works. There are also many other ways to build a hydrogen fuel cell. It works. Trust me.

Also, in your example, you are incorrect. You would have less than zero energy, due to friction caused by the wind, and other thermodynamic forces. You would lose all energy as heat eventually. Therefore, it is flawed physics, but it's not my physics, and it demonstrates your lack of full understanding in such situations.

Fuel cells work. Period. And yes, your physics are flawed. Thanks for clearing that up.)

The ISE forgets where the world is right now. It will announce policy when it recovers from it's war of the words with Ireland.

[Tassadar]

The US generously export a large amount of food to the Irish population aboard a number of Behemoths.

[Flagmauth]

[I never said perpetual motion technology is possible IRP, and as Trey pointed out you are in fact wrong. In a loop system like that, energy would constantly leave the system via friction and other methods producing heat and sound energy.]

[President WIN]

(I just reread what I wrote, and it sounded mean. I apologize, Ian.)

The ISE goes about celebrating the new year.

[Flagmauth]

New Year's being one of the most celebrated Communist holidays (short of Revolution-based holidays in each country and birthdays of people like Marx, Lenin and Sarov), the Soviets hold more parades.

[overused Youtube clip]

[Tassadar]

America throws the biggest party in the history of mankind. Everyone is invited.

[Doomwing]

(I will end with this. The Self contained reaction of Hydrogen and oxygen makes energy yes? But it produces water. You have to separate oxygen from the water to get the two ingredients back. That requires energy. So with a self contained reaction like that. You would end up using the energy produced to separate the original substances. Thus you get an Impossible reaction. you would have to expel water to get it to work. The whole self contained reaction like that is a flawed design. Not to mention you would have water build up in the tank which would cause an increase in pressure. That is the main flaw with this Self-contained hydrogen reaction. It just cannot possibly work. It is like this ex:

You have a Fan blowing into a wind turbine producing energy. Infinite Energy trolololol. Unfortunately the energy is just going back into the fan to keep it running. Sure energy is being produced it just goes back to the source and is being used up as fast as it is being produced so you technically have Zero Energy.

It just Doesn't work. Period. it is flawed Physics.)

.

Obviously you miss read what I posted... I said in this that perpetual motion things cannot work and that that is troll physics. Also with an Internal combustion engine, which is what a hydrogen engine is. The reaction produces heat which would keep the water in a vapor form. For a prolonged use as a car, you would have to have some form of ventilation or the thing will explode. You would be adding Extra material which would be pushed by the reaction of the hydrogen and the oxygen. It is like a rocket we built in chemistry. When you have a basic reaction with hydrogen and oxygen, it doesn't push itself. it just goes out. But when you added Water, in this case, it acted as something to give it propulsion. With an Engine like that you have the pistons which act like that. They provide motion to the car.

Cars like ours produce C02 and Water vapor. You can see the water vapor easily during the winter. it is the little fog coming out of the Exhaust. They have the ventilation so that the build up of Water doesn't impair the reaction. Not only that so that the build up of water doesn't act as more surface area to push on. Now back to the rocket. When you added a Perfect 2 to 1 Ratio of Hydrogen to oxygen, and the right amount of water. The Rocket Flew Further, Because it had more surface area to push on.

Also even if you store it in a separate tank, the water will be in its gaseous state, due to the heat generated by the reaction. The Pressure will build up and eventually, Boom. Your Water storage tank explodes compromising the safety of the hydrogen car.

This is why the more successful designs of the hydrogen car do have a ventilation system. Because there is heat produced in the reaction along with the various compounds created in the explosion of the gas in the piston.

Also with a hydrogen car, like you said repurposing the water into its basic elements. would be a great strain on the battery of said car. Because not only would you need to start the explosion, but you would have to have a constant current separating the H20 into H2 and O2.

Sure you could supplement this with solar, but then you get the problem of it being cloudy out. For the Sake of Efficiency, you would need to get your hydrogen at Gas station like areas, and your oxygen could come from outside like it does in regular cars.

So you can put a tank at the bottom, it just would be a waste of energy to use and wouldn't be its most efficient design.)

Ireland sets a location halfway between the earth and the asteroid belt to pick up the food. Ireland says the reason is, Because you murdered a good portion of our people on Ireland, and we don't trust you yet.

[President WIN]

You clearly don't understand the principle of hrdrogen fuel cells. Rather than having an internal combustion engine, the energy of the reaction is harvested by the fuel cell, and channeled into a motor which runs the car. The water is not split in the car, but rather at large plants designed for such work, or at home charging stations. You base your ideas here on the assumption of hydrogen combustion, but the fuel cell works in different ways. It is less initially efficient, but more renewable.

[Flagmauth]

China and Russia contact Ireland, wanting to know if, as fellow Socialists, they could perhaps attack the ISE. They deliver a list of targets, primarily Brasilia and industrial/military centers in Africa.

[If you roll 20, you find this, although you may still have to make the Reds prove they are behind it, as they'll deny everything.]

[President WIN]

(Eh, I'll roll for it, but this is a tad out of character for your countries Jeffrey. Usually they've tried to play the injured party. Trying to attack, even to get someone to proxy attack for them is out of character. Also, I will post about France soon. Thank you for avoiding it over the holidays.)

The ISE sends ambassadors skilled in Party Rock Anthem to the American Party.

[Flagmauth]

The member 'President WIN' has done the following action : Roll dice

'd20' : 12

[President WIN]

(Oh, and Time thingy too.)

[Flagmauth]

[The main reason they've been playing the victims is because it's suited their agenda to do so. If Belousov and Zhe can get more out of an offensive approach than a defensive one they will mobilize at the drop of a hat.]

Cuba, having been turned into a military island that makes Iwo Jima look like a snow fort, receives an influx of Soviet divisions and ships to garrison its fortifications and carry cargo.

Evanson, in Britain, chucks the Americans out if they try to get in the way of his attempts to prosecute the war on Communism, which I believe they are (Alex, correct me if I'm wrong). The Royal Navy has been leading the Red Navy a merry chase while they try to destroy it, using quite a lot of submarines after their battleships and carriers were largely sunk in the Battle of the Channel. Soviet antisubmarine techniques are lacking, a fact not unnoticed by Admiral Tortorov, who works to correct this.

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